I shouldn’t be any more, but I’m still surprised when people argue vehemently against their own self-interest. The health care debate has taken this disconnect to new levels. The states that seem to have the strongest polling against health care reform are those where people would be helped most by the reforms. The arguments I hear tend to be more political than practical, involving deep suspicion of government in general and Obama in particular, fear of some sort of socialist takeover of the economy, and the truly loony equation of health care reform with Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. I wondered what the conversation would be like if I removed the political philosophy from the debate and inserted in its place the practical problems our current non-system of health care presents. I ended up with this cartoon.
I recently saw a Frontline (it may have been a repeat) on Health Care in the U.K., Taiwan, Germany and Switzerland. No two were the same, some based on the government model others on private, all better than what we have today. Like Ed, I too am bewildered by people who are unwilling to have change and somehow actually believe we have the best health care system. But then, I read “What’s the Matter with Kansas?: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America” and it blew me away, too.
I do business in Canada. When the government runs out of money – and ours can’t even run a clunkers program on schedule or budget – they stop giving treatment. I can give you many personal examples.
Canadians don’t seem to mind. One of my partner’s wives got breast cancer. It took 4 months to get a bed because her surgeon was only allocated 2 beds.
My wife had breast surgery immediately when she came down with cancer this year.
This is not health care reform – its government takeover. It’s always easier to many people to let the government do it because they don’t want to take personal responsibility.
Nice inference to the Nazi’s because I don’t agree with your point of view.
Don’t label me a conservative or liberal and I will give you the same respect.
Ah, the perfect example of the folks in Ed’s panels. He just needs to add a 7th with someone making some off-the-wall conclusions based upon almost no facts. Even if the example was accurate, so what? I could give millions of examples (tens of millions) where, in the US, people got no bed, no help because they had no insurance and couldn’t get it even if they could afford it.
I did like the reference to the “clunkers program” like that has any relevance. What’s the basis for saying that? While it said like it’s trivial task, I think that is a very difficult task. The problem is, with our society, there is always someone out there trying to con the system. I recently saw a pgm on Medicare fraud. Unbelievable. $50 billion/year. And the gov. gets grief there for paying too quickly. How in the world can anyone expect that millions of $$ could be paid in a matter of 2 weeks with any kind of controls at all?
P.S. I only saw the word conservative once – in the title of a book I read.
The Health Insurance industry has started to bombard us with TV ads with the punch line “don’t let Congress pay for Health Care Reform on the backs of Seniors”. Even if it were true (and I don’t believe it is) why not? There are currently over 40 million on Medicare and about 40 million uninsured. Why, simply because you are 65, should you get a government run health care plan but someone 64 (or 44 or 24) cannot? Why shouldn’ those 65 and over help pay? And how will they help?The biggest Medicare cut is the $117 billion in cuts to Medicare Advantage will threaten the choices that seniors have. Wow. That is going to be a heck of a sacrifice. It also reduces projected future increases in Medicare spending such as inpatient hospital service payments and ambulatory care payments that would otherwise undergo annual re-adjustments. Oooh. That too is a lot to give up, especially since hospitals will have less uninsured costs (as all will be insured) to pass on to insurers/Medicare.
But the insurance companies have this all down to a science (Harry and Louise). What I want to know is how everyone just loses their brains once they hit 65. It’s scary, as I will hit that in 16 months and would like to avoid that fate.
Correction – I should have said almost all will be insured. The hospitals will still have to give emergency care to those rascal illegals.
That does bring up an idea: John, try taking your wife to the ER, tell them you have no insurance and no ability to pay and see how long before she gets scheduled for surgery. Actually, forget that. Just lie, give them a credit card and she can get it quickly and you can just go bankrupt later.
This is brilliant, Ed. I’m teaching a course on health care policy reform, and it is sure a moving target these days! The opposition to reform is fascinating, given how many hard luck stories opponents have. One activist told me of an opponent who told her that their family had suffered enormous bills and debt for the past 15 years after their son was in an accident and the health insurance had been cancelled just days before when the husband lost his job. She seemed to take perverse pleasure in the fact that the family had struggled for a decade and a half. Talk about the “better dead than red” mentality.
I want to respond to one of Jerry Brammer’s comments (“What I want to know is how everyone just loses their brains once they hit 65.”) My students are all Mature Learners (over 55) and they are some of the most intelligent, progressive folks I know. Many older people support reform. And many young people (ask my poor son about some of the high school kids who parrot their parents’ prejudiced remarks) are responding in knee jerk fashion, afraid of change and believing the lies of those who are making big bucks off the system.
I hope you don’t mind that I posted a couple of your cartoons on my teaching blog and linked to your blog, Ed. If so, let me know and I’ll remove them at once. Thanks.
FF, I actually understand the “better dead than red” mentality. I would put it in the “misery loves company” group.
I also would mention that almost all my friends are over 55 and I find them to to be the most intelligent, progressive folks I know. It’s what happens at 65 that scares me. In any case, I will find out soon enough and report back. If I begin to sound like the teabaggers/town hall yellers, though, I’d ask now that I just be put out of my misery. Maybe by then we’ll have the death panels in place.
Jerry, you seem to have no problem replying to any and every comment, but I still don’t have you figured out. I would like to a ask you two personal questions and hopefully get a short and direct answer: Since you are so down on seniors over age 65, what did you do for a living? Secondly, since you are approaching age 65, were you in service and did you serve in Viet Nam?
Don, what are you trying to figure out and why? I served from 1964-1968 but what does that matter? You tell me why you want to know what I do and I might say but if you have read as much as it seems you have then you would know I am on my last few days of COBRA coverage after having and paying for health insurance coverage for 40+ years, never been in the hospital for more than day surgery and have been turned down for individual health insurance coverage.
Don,
P.S. Catch any fish?
P.S.S. Where did you say that parking lot striping job was? I don’t suppose they provide health care insurance?
Jerry,
No fish – we went to Charlotte, N.C. to see our first great grandson and stopped by Gatlinburg for a couple of days on the way back.
I could use an assistant on a job I started today. Approximately 100 spaces but there is a problem – It doesn’t provide health insurance, in fact, it doesn’t pay anything at all. They do a lot for the poor and for the community in general so that makes it worthwhile.
I’m sure you have thought of the V.A. for your health care and medication. I use them for an annual physical even though I have Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield. They are a little on the slow side, but I enjoy the people that I meet there.
Don,
That is a great idea. I will go chat with the VA folks next week. We have a fairly good sized hospital right here where I live. I guess I have always assumed that you needed to be a 20-year man or deemed service related disabled for them to see you.
I’ve worked in both NC and TN – nice country. We usually end up taking our 5th wheel West to WA, OR and CA, though.
Jerry, I answered you earlier and when I hit “submit comment”, I lost it, so here goes again.
You will not be disappointed with the care you receive at a V.A. clinic or hospital. You are fortunate to have a hospital close, we have a clinic here but the nearest hospital is about 80 miles. The cost of seeing a doctor is $25.00 and Prescription drugs are $8.00 each.
I served about four months less than you did, so I am sure you will not have a problem getting enrolled. Please let me know if you get enrolled and how well you like their services.
Several of you may remember me from some earlier posts. I had a job with insurance and then got cancer (Metastatic Melanoma) and my employer fired me and cancelled me insurance. I was offered COBRA for more that I was making, obviously couldn’t afford it on unemployment. With the help of a wonderful doctor that helped pay for my chemo treatments and the Medicaid I was eventually able to get on I got though it. After the chemo ended the state of NC cancelled my Medicaid saying I no longer needed it after the chemo was finished, over the Very Loud objections of my doctors who were Very concerned that my cancer had a 80% chance of recurring. I have had no medical assistance since the state canceled my Medicaid.
Update; after going to the hospital 3 time in the past 9 months complaining that I just felt real bad and just couldn’t function properly I was sent home each time with no testing and no medication. Five days ago I had a seizure and went to the hospital, this time they Had to test me. They found that the cancer had spread to my brain and I am having brain surgery tomorrow. The doctors are not giving me a very good chance with this but I have beat the odds before. The doctors have told me that if I had been able to get the proper testing that the government previously told me I no longer needed, that my prognosis would have been Far better than what I face now.
I really hope something can be done to help others like me that Desperately need healthcare before it is too late but unfortunately I feel that the big money insurance lobby will succeed in defeating any meaningful reform, to them it’s not personal, it’s just business.
Hope to be commenting again soon and I have really enjoyed your site Ed.
As I have been fighting cancer for 15 years I can appreciate what you are going through. Luckily I am on medicare and as a result have had no problem with payment of my health bills. I originally come from Europe (Ireland) and am shocked and dismayed at the barbaric healthcare system in the USA caused by having private healtcare insurance. After all these people don’t do anything to help you when you are sick. They are just parasites who add significant costs to the system so that a few CEO’s can live like kings. They are of no practical value whatsoever.
I hope you survive the brain surgery. Let me know as soon as you can. Merry Christmas